Time to throw in the towel?

[vakkotaur]

The laptop I've been using is a Compaq Armada 7800 which is a 266 MHz Pentium II. Sounds a bit dated, doesn't it? It is.

I first ran Ultima Linux on it, and had the problem of wireless being cantankerous. When Ultima's website went *poof* I looked around and switched to Wolvix, which was an improvement. Then Wolvix had a new release, so I upgraded. That was a good idea, almost. Something in the new version chews up CPU. If I stop udevd the CPU usage drops from 100% to a more reasonable 7% or so. But even then there is an annoying seizing of the pointer that happens often enough that the machine is hardly usable. And the Wolvix site has been unreachable for me today. That's not encouraging.

I tried Xubuntu 7.10 (again) and it wouldn't boot the LiveCD fully, even in the "safe" mode. Same thing for TinyMe (a light version of PCLinuxOS that I'd love to be able to run). Anti-X, which is a light version of MEPIS and not a command line only thing despite the name, did the same. All those boot on a much faster desktop machine.

I tried Feather Linux, which actually booted and ran on the laptop. I might try it again and see if I can get wireless working. Or I might try another distribution, such as Absolute Linux.

In all the searching for answers to the boot problems I happened across a review of the laptop. It was dated 1998. This machine is nearly ten years old now. New machines run a few versions of CPU newer and clock a full order of magnitude faster. No wonder I'm having trouble finding something that it will run and run well.

I expect that if I keep looking and keep at things long enough I could get a workable system again. But now I am wondering if it would even be worth the effort. Also, the PCMCIA card doesn't handle WPA. Or rather it can be made to handle it, but only under Windows.

The only three real options right now are:

1. Compaq Armada 7800 (P-II 266 MHz)
...with all the problems above, including the lack of WPA.

2. A newer Dell (P-III 700 MHz ?)
This would have the lack of WPA problem, and I had similar boot problems with it when I was suspicious of the Compaq a few months ago, and it also suffers from being a Dell.

3. PowerBook G4 (G4 867 Mhz)
This one has OS X (yes, the newest version, whatever cat it is this time) so it is unixy underneath, and WPA does work. Unfortunately the surface isn't quite as unixy as it ought to be and I'd be stuck with the color scheme I'd scrap in an instant if only I could. Really, if I could fix that easily, I'd probably already be using this machine. It *is* unix underneath, right? Shouldn't there be a simple .config style file to edit to fix the colors?

So I have a choice of two machines that don't work and one that works but I'd have to stare into a light bulb to use it. Yuck. Though only when using Apple-supplied stuff. If I treated OS X like I treat(ed) Windows -- running programs from third parties whenever possible -- it might just be rendered tolerable. That's what I'm leaning toward right now.

That does bring up another issue: what programs will I need to find replacements for? Right now I suspect I'd need to replace Nedit (tabbed text editor that I can set the colors on), X-chat (x-chat aqua evidently isn't really ready, dagnabbit), Pidgin (formerly gaim). And I'd need these programs to all let me set their colors and not just use the OS non-choice(s).

At least I wouldn't be stuck using Safari (which has the same locked-in color idiocy as OS X itself) since Opera is available for OS X. Though evidently I'd need to tell OS X to get out of the way and let the keys do the things I expect them to so. F12 means "open the Opera quick menu" and not whatever goofy (and as I recall, utterly useless) thing OS X does with it, to me.

I suppose the choice should be whichever one involves the least amount of cussing. No, Mr. Jobs, that does not make #3 automatic. If only Woz had been around to make sure the configuration tools that ought to be there were included...

It is quite frustrating. The MacBook looks seems like a great thing, but only almost.

Comments

[yakko.livejournal.com]

In random order:

- F12 on MacOS X is the Eject key
- All your X11 programs you used in Linux can be used under MacOS X, but you have to sign up for a little more pain in the form of Fink or acceptable alternative (I forgot what DarwinPorts renamed itself to). You'll also have to install X11User, which comes with the OS, to get the X server
- For the IM replacement, if you want to go that route, I recommend Adium. I use this message style to make the IM windows look tolerable.
- I really wish there were a hidden configuration value to change the colors overall, but I haven't found one yet.

[altivo.livejournal.com]

I have nothing favorable to say about Mac anything, so I'll leave that alone.

Running Linux on older hardware is quite practical, actually, but does require considerably more effort getting it set up. In my experience, "live CD" distributions almost never work right in that situation. They just aren't adequately tested with the wide variety of hardware configurations they need to support. In fact, even Microsoft's own products have this problem, though to a lesser extent.

I find that the best way to get a Linux setup you can actually use on an older hardware combination (and especially laptops and notebooks) is to take a distribution like Slackware and build up the configuration slowly by adding individual packages to support only what you will actually use. Each time you encounter a difficulty, you have to stop and resolve it before continuing. The generic distributions usually have an all or nothing attitude. They may offer a menu choice during installation for a "minimal" installation, but whatever that is it won't be what you want. The full default installation is likely to be too much for an older CPU with limited memory to handle, and may be too large for the disk space as well.

Distributions like Ubuntu don't seem to make any real allowances for this situation. Instead they assume that you have hardware that is just a year or two old at the most, and don't really care if you waste 10GB of disk storage or a billion CPU cycles on stuff that you don't need. Consequently, if they run at all on an older machine they crawl like cold molasses and tend to lock up frequently. This is the sort of thing that gives Linux such a bad reputation.

My current battle is with X support for older video cards. Chipsets that were perfectly functional a few years ago are suddenly being omitted from distributions entirely. The attitude is "Well, it only does 800x600 so no one is going to want to use it any more," which forgets that with an older notebook computer you may not have an option of swapping out the video board or display for something newer, and even a desktop machine may have issues with BIOS compatibility when it comes to cramming the latest accelerated video card into it. As much as I dislike Microsoft, at least they aren't so fickle about supporting older hardware. It may not work with all the newest features, but it continues to work at the level it had when it was still fully supported.

[jmaynard.livejournal.com]

I use Colloquy for IRC. Works fine, open source, allows resetting colors and fonts easily.

I just went looking at text editors, and found Smultron. Customizeable colors and fonts, syntax coloring, open source. Looks like I'll use it.

Haven't gone looking for IM programs yet; iChat and Yahoo! Messenger work fine for me.

The "Look" thing has Changed a bit with Leopard.

[invader-tak-1.livejournal.com]

On a Mac LAPTOP the eject key IS the eject key. It has an eject symbol. "not the F12 as mentioned below"

best IM I agree is Adium, no better client, certainly no client that does so many services. Trillian wishes it supports that many. I expect Trillian for the mac is going to be a BIG disappointment.

For browsers, I like Safari , but there is not just Opera , there is Firefox, another I'm playing with from Japan called "Shiira" and a few others if you look.

If the colors are too bright for you in Leopard, since the menus are all tranpaurent use a darker background and you shouldn't be so bothered. Unlike a lot of PC laptops you can dim the screen with the screen brightness keys on the Keyboard if you need to.

Also if you have not looked, Leopard has really dimmed the "Lightbulb" effect AKA Aqua. so you should like that. Personally I liked it better the old way. I liked Aqua, and Miss it in Leopard but it sounds like a gain for you.

I tell people learning to do things a little differently is annoying for about a week, then you will wonder why you ever did it any other way. I did Windows from 3.11 for workgroups to Vista, and I switched last year.

"Just so people know I'm not some sort of Apple zombie, I don't care for iTunes, and only use it to load my pod, and frankly, would it kill them to give us a dedicated file browser? Though with Spotlight being as good as it is, who needs it? And it does not have to constantly page the drive to know where things are like Vista.

I'm also running a separate Linux box. I understand Mac reluctance, five years ago, I wouldn't have touched it. But its not the old days, and if you have not used a mac in the last three years you really have not used a Mac.

Re: The "Look" thing has Changed a bit with Leopard.

[invader-tak-1.livejournal.com]

I meant from 3.11 For Workgroups to XP, not Vista. Vista is what switched me, a DRM'ed, crash happy, weak copy of Aqua did not interest me. They even copied the wallpapers! I still Can't walk by a display of Vista Machines without getting the giggles.

I originally went Linux, which I still like, but then I got a G4 Powerbook, and thats all it took. Though I still like to have my Linux box up as a back up and so I can answer tech support questions for the folks I got to go over to Ubuntu. Great when I have people over who need to use the net too, cause I can turn my back on them and not worry they will fill it with crap like the old XP box.

Re: The "Look" thing has Changed a bit with Leopard.

[vakkotaur.livejournal.com]

Because Opera doesn't know what sort of Mac it is on, it was set to use something other than F12 (some combo I think, which defeats the one-key and done utility of the quick menu) for that function. This morning jmaynard changed that while I was looking at one of the other options.

I am aware of Firefox, but it feels kludgy to me. Opera, at least with the settings I've built up over the years, feels polished and natural to me. It also amuses me to see some folks claim that Firefox invented things that I had been using for years before Firefox got around to them. The big problem for this now is that I can't just copy over my .opera directory and be done like I can from Linux to Linux. If it was just bookmarks, it would be simply renaming one file. But it looks like I get to go through and tweak nearly every setting.

Transparency is one of those things I simply do not get. It's on my list of "idiotic things I need to turn off" assuming I can turn it off. However, a dark background will get set. I like a nice, flat black desktop. Last I checked, though, I had to make a black image rather than just turn something off and/or set a color. It's not just the highlights, it the very background of the applications. I loathe looking at retina-searing white-hot backgrounds - that's why I override the settings on almost every web page. A screen is not paper and until a true "electronic ink" display is the case, I really wish people would stop treating a screen like it is a paper.

I also used WfW 3.11 to Win2K* at home (and XP at work) and moved to Linux to avoid XP at home. The first couple times I tried it was too much. Then I changed applications slowly, on Windows, to cross-platform applications that I knew would work on Linux. Then when I made the switch, it was far less jarring. The great thing was that the applications didn't change behavior, or at least not very much. I suspect switch to the Mac will be most jarring due to not having X-style highlight to copy (that was easy to get used to) and having applications minimize when the last tab is closed - that was a nasty shock as I wasn't done with the application, just that last tab. I guess I'll have to get in the habit of manually opening a new tab and then closing one, rather than simply have one auto-generate when there is none.

And I quite agree: old Mac OS was rather nasty. OS X is an improvement, but it's annoying in that it left out a simple control that ought to be there.

---

* Actually, except for one laptop with 95, I skipped over win95 and win98 and winME. I did use NT4 for a little while.

Re: The "Look" thing has Changed a bit with Leopard.

[invader-tak-1.livejournal.com]

I'm still fond of Shiira Though I don't think its quite there yet. Not for Fill time use.

It has a really weird tab system, but its been utterly stable.

http://shiira.jp/en Don;t let the fact that the last news post is July fool you, it gets updated regularly.

Don't give up on your 7800

[(Anonymous)]

I have one too. I mostly use it to X into my machine in the Den but the 7800 is a fully functional standalone machine as well.

I did a Debian netinstall of just the base and then apt-getted' the packages I wanted piecemeal. I went with light apps (a la Damn Small Linux) and IceWM and am pretty happy.

raddatz@sprintpcs.com

Re: Don't give up on your 7800

[vakkotaur.livejournal.com]

As it is, I've gone with the Mac, though it took some time get things mostly whacked into shape. The main thing was that with working WPA, I can use the wireless network at home without requiring it be less secure.

I haven't truly given up on the 7800, though. It's not broken, just old and the Aironet card doesn't handle WPA so if I want WPA with it I get to find a new card. I'm not sure it's worth the bother. Yet... I am looking at distributions that might work out. I'm no fan of Debian (I don't care for the politics and find GNU/ prefixing to be so silly as to be distracting - I edited every instance I could of it out of the earlier Wolvix install) but I do like the minimalist idea there. Icewm is a really nice window manager for that. DeLi used it and kept things minimal and made a Pentium 90 seem if not fast at least tolerable.

Re: Don't give up on your 7800

[(Anonymous)]

I've actually started using the 7800 more and more. I've had more free time to play with it so I've turned it into my main machine (still have the office machine for ripping CDs, etc though)

Can't speak to the WPA issue. Frankly, I've given up on wireless security. I keep the boxen tightend up and ocassionally check for freeloaders but other than that, I've withdrawn from the arms race.

I've switched distros too. I'm on the most recent version of Linux Mint. Getting sound working under Debian was kicking my ass so I folded.

Now I have a PCMCIA wireless card in one slot and a bluetooth card in the other. It lets me use a bluetooth mouse and I'm hoping to get it to sync with my Treo and use the treo as a Modem as well. The data connection on my Treo is pretty fast so getting it set up as a wireless modem for my lappy would be pretty sweet.

I also hated that the 7800 only has one USB port so I found a really tiny hub and velco'd it to the lid. It works pretty well with just the laptop's power but if something needs more power it came with a little power cord too.

I'm still using IceWM an trying to stick to lighter apps like Dillo or Opera instead of Mozilla. I can listen to music, have IM sessions open in Pidgin, and browse the web with Dillo really comfortably. Trouble is, Dillo doesn't always render pages very well so I have to load up a heavier browser like Opera or (god forbid) Mozilla. Mozilla is a last resort though; I've seen it chew up almost 200 Mb of RAM and with only 256 available I wind up swapping like mad.

Re: Don't give up on your 7800

[vakkotaur.livejournal.com]

That all sounds pretty good. I haven't yet had Linux Mint actually boot properly, though it does sound interesting. I might give that another try. I've also been considering SliTaz (http://www.slitaz.org/en/about/). Hopefully the only silliness they commit is the ugly GNU/ prepending Linux.

Try this

[(Anonymous)]

http://www.pcbypaul.com/absolute/

Will work great on that old pII